All kinds of interesting data has been generated in this E-Tax debate . . . Here's a great looking chart forwarded my way from a KICK-ASS TKC TIPSTER.
Basically, this is a look at how much each city was spending per person according to the TKC Reader who passed it along.
Check it and click the image for a bigger view:
"This may be of interest to people considering the e-tax right now. I pulled info that I could find for area cities to figure out how much each city was spending per person, to get an idea of how KCMO is doing. Yikes! It has helped me make up my mind. I included the URL's to the various budget docs and a page no. reference since some of them are pretty long. There are also some notes because some cities provide more services than others and so it makes sense that they would cost more. I'm not claiming this to be authoritative, but it's probably pretty close and at least helpful in providing some perspective."
I've linked the footnotes for you that feature other cities and their budgets . . .
Blue Springs
Raytown
Wyandotte County
Overland Park
Lee's Summit
Independence
Kansas City
So what have we learned here? I'm not exactly sure other than to see that Kansas City spends a lot on residents . . . While I'd prefer they just wrote me a check, the comparison might lead others to believe that KC is actually subsidizing a lot of surrounding areas. Meanwhile, KC elected officials get off the hook in this discussion because it's actually poor financial decisions that give E-Tax opponents their greatest talking point in convincing this town to cut off precious suburban revenue.
But what do you d-bags think?
Property taxes in the Johnson County cities are outrageously higher than KC. Cities like Raytown and Independence offer very little in the way of city services.
ReplyDeleteFurther, Kansas City still has to clean up after and repair roads, etc that are used by residents of all of the surrounding cities.
So what have we learned here?
ReplyDeleteMy guess is when this piece of content becomes irrelevant in a few minutes or so Nothing.
What are you talking about, 1:43?
ReplyDeleteRaytown and Independence have streets, sewers, water systems, fire and police departments, parks and ambulance services, just like KCMO.
That's really about all a city should provide.
Err... let's see...
ReplyDeleteDo the other cities listed have...
... a MAJOR AIRPORT?
... a WATER DEPARTMENT that serves as a regional service provider?
... a regional CONVENTION CENTER?
You see, Tony, Mijo, these things by and large are self-funding (meaning they are not a cost to the taxpayer). The other cities you cite as "comparisons" don't provide such a regional service; people in those cities actually help pay for these regional services.
So your "comparison" is less an apples-to-apples analysis, that it is an apples-to-pumpkins.
But don't worry, Tony, Rex Sinquefield, and Crosby Kemper, and Woody Cozad will be sure to cite your "analysis" approvingly.
-urther, Kansas City still has to clean up after and repair roads, etc that are used by residents of all of the surrounding cities.
ReplyDelete3/28/11 1:43 PM
THAT ARGUMENT IS SO STUPID. KCMO PEOPLE ALSO DRIVE ON RAYTOWN, INDEPENDENCE AND JOCO STREETS.
MOST PEOPLE IN THE METRO WOULD STAY COMPLETELY OUT OF KCMO IF THEY HAD THEIR CHOICE.
MAYBE KCMO SHOULD JUST SET UP TOLL BOOTHS ONCE THE E-TAX IS REPEALED.
KCMO people are so jealous of JoCo, but they sure want that JoCo money any way they can get it.
ReplyDeleteI think JoCo does better than KCMO because it isn't dominated by Democrats.
Hey,
ReplyDeleteI just got off the plane here at Blue Springs International Airport to attend a conference at the Raytown Convention Center. I hear the Independence Arena is one of the top 5000 arenas in the nation...sweet! Sure looking forward to the fun nightlife at the Bed, Bath and Beyond in Overland Park!
Peace out!
Jed
In the future, I propose that all regional amenities be built outside of Kansas City, MO. I think that will make everyone a whole lot happier.
ReplyDeleteIn reality, it's sort of going that way. Witness: Kansas Speedway, CommunityAmerica Ballpark, the Sporting KC stadium, Independence Event Center....
I've learned that big tits make a girl happy.
ReplyDeleteIt's not HOW MUCH is spent .... the question is WHERE does it go.
ReplyDeleteAnd in Kansas City it does NOT go for services.
More BS.
Also how about rather than Spending how about Saving?
That data is meaningless.
ReplyDeleteThe KC sports stadiums are Jackson County's, not Kansas City's/
ReplyDeleteAnd the revamped Union Station was funded by the bistate tax.
Quit the whine-a-thon, Kansas City.
Jed:
ReplyDeleteThere a lot of national conferences in OP, and there's plenty of nightlife in JoCo and at the Legends in KCK.
KCMO is losing out.
Why are Independence numbers so high? Because they have an electrical utility.
ReplyDeleteWhy are JoCo's numbers so low? Because water is provided by a county utility.
It's a lame comparison but I'm sure it's plenty fine for simple minds around here.
Nice work, Tony. Probably more damning than any of the bullshit we're hearing.
ReplyDeleteI'd still like to know where KC stand regarding firemen or fire budget versus population or number of structures.
I bet we're over protected by quite a bit.
-0-
Also most of those KCMO venues are RENTED and the facility costs are built into ticket/admission prices.
Kansas City is over 300 square miles, the others...not so big.
ReplyDeleteJed at 2:28PM
ReplyDeleteThat was the funniest posts that I have ever read on Tony's. Bravo. See you at the Liberty Ballet.
KC has an Airport and water Dept that are enterprise funds so no profit from either can go into the general fund. In the case of the Airport that is quite a loss of needed funding. The airports big rainy day fund could bail out the Water Dept and fix our sewer problems.
ReplyDeleteNowhere on your graphic illustration does it say that any city spends any money on any citizen.
ReplyDeleteAll it tells you is what the budget is and how many people live in that city.
Dividing the amount of the budget by the number of people living in each city does not make the final number the amount they spend on each of them for services.
They could burn the budget money and not spend a dime on any services and the numbers would come out the same.
So...It basically comes down to B.S. via you.
this is the worst form of rag journalism you can find. Meaningless numbers that somehow "prove" or "mean" something that they absolutely do not. 4:17 got it right. This is when TKC is at its worst. SMH
ReplyDelete2:16 Additionally, regional HAZMAT, Police Helicopters, and SWAT.
ReplyDelete2:16 hit it.
ReplyDelete4:17 and 5:03 are also on the money.
Duh, KCMO is 350 square miles. Lots to serve.
ReplyDeleteAsk the KickAss Tipster to recalculate the per person cost after subtracting just the Water Dept. and Aviation Dept. from that list.
ReplyDeleteLooks a helluva lot different, eh Jeffie and company?
Of course, whatever you can do to obfuscate the facts to favor the outcome your client is paying.....
And after Funky, you guys sorely do need a W.
K.C. is not 350 square miles big.
ReplyDeleteTry 318 square miles.
2:16 had a good point on the airport because it truly does provide a regional service. But even after taking out their numbers, KCMO is still way above the average.
ReplyDeleteHowever taking out the Water Dept would be naive. Several of the other cities include expenses for water, whether it's their own facilities like Indy, or wheeling charges, like Raytown. I betcha most people reading this didn't realize that! So it's more level- more apples to apples- than what it might appear.
Also, the City finds ways to raid the "enterprise funds" all the time. They either do it by charging them expenses (Water dept has to pay permit fees to the general fund every time they excavate), by charging for centralized City resources with some "overhead" (IT systems and services, fleet, etc), or by offloading services that typically are provided by general fund depts in most citys. OP has Stormwater Management in their budget- that is a function of the Water Dept in KC. KC Water Dept also includes street sweeping, usually a Public Works function. In fact it was in Public Works until two years ago! KCMO moved it to WSD to offset the expense from the general fund. Same thing with Household Hazardous Waste. Another huge expense that is now paid by your water bill and not tax revenues.
This kind of perennial abuse of the enterprise funds is the biggest reason the WSD is in such bad shape. Most citizens have no idea about the huge shell game that goes on. So for all these reasons, I think it's fair game to leave the WSD budget numbers in there for comparison.
I'm pretty sure most of the cities on the list have their own SWAT units! Lee's Summit even has a special police diving unit, which KCMO does not. Each city probably has some type of resource that other cities leverage at times, thus making it "regional". Aside from KCI, I can't think of any other regionally significant items that are busting KCMO's budget. It's a reflection of bad leaders and a system that produces whiney voters.
So far not one single person anywhere has mentioned the elephant sitting in the corner of the room staring at us...
ReplyDeleteThe really big reason that many folks, including the E-Tax haters, are scared that the tax might disappear...because all the folks in the hood who are currently getting their checks every month won't waste their precious free money on things like their own trash service, among other things and that the core of the city will soon be awash in stinky refuse.
Good luck trying to get welfare freeloaders to care about Kansas City, let alone their own block.
People who have been living on welfare for generations have no concept of property ownership and could care less if their rental house looks like shit, let alone their yard or the street they live on.
Dear 5:50, this is 2:16 calling...
ReplyDeleteYour "analysis" is, well, lacking.
While it may be true that a dozen or more communities outside KCMO reflect their water-related expenses/revenues, KCMO's accounting of necessity counts them as well. So it remains true that KCMO's financials DO IN FACT reflect this "overburden".
And you will of course (in your intellectually dishonest zeal) continue to ignore the fact that when KCMO Water expenses are inflated by these non-KCMO users, our Water-related revenues more than offset that "overburden". Because otherwise you won't have an argument.
5:50 You don't make any sense.
ReplyDeleteOK Pat. I get it. You're at the bar.
ReplyDeleteKC uses JACO's Medical Examiner more than I use the airport.
ReplyDeleteOP doesn't provide trash service as I recall. It was done by Deffenbaugh.
ReplyDeleteAnd I think their dump is in Tony's backyard.
T, you just got played by Rex and Roe.
Thanks for the laugh - I needed that comic relief
ReplyDelete@Jed
2:07pm
@2:16pm
@4:17pm
@7:05pm
@7:13pm
Yes KC sells water, but what they're doing is recouping and profiting off of its excess capacity. They're not providing a big favor. It's income on capacity they already have.
ReplyDeleteAirport? Well I expect the airport authority operates at a profit off of the airlines and other vendors out there.
The airport should have been built in JOCO because growth was moving that way...but KC was hot for it.
"They're not providing a big favor"???
ReplyDeleteI'd like to see these communities survive without water.