Since the crisis over JJ's inferno accountability has started THE TKC BLOG COMMUNITY has been attempting to decipher the doublespeak of politicos and public officials while Mayor Sly James seems much more concerned with his fashion choices.
The following titbit simply confirms what a great many Kansas City Insiders commenting on this blog have been saying since Wednesday.
Kansas City’s emergency response plan says public safety officials — not workers for private companies — should decide if threats such as gas leaks warrant evacuations.
Way before this . . .
A Friday report by KSHB's Ryan Kath reviewed local emergency response procedures and "They all make it very clear that buildings should be evacuated when there is a smell of gas. They also don't give any impression about deferring to utility companies. They might rely on them for locating gas mains and shutoff valves, but not making the call to evacuate."
And so . . .
KANSAS CITY MAYOR SLY'S PRESS CONFERENCE BRAVADO AND ATTEMPT TO AVOID PLAYING "THE BLAME GAME" HAS NOW BEEN ANSWERED WITH THE CITY'S POLICY!!!
And again . . . You d-bags have been telling us this since Wednesday along with fun facts about devices used to detect gas levels in the air and other obscure facts regarding insider details on the hot mess.
The only thing somebody got wrong was an angry Fire dude claiming that TKC tried to apply to the FD . . . That one is easy to mythbust because I've never been that ambitious or wanted to hang around a bunch of dudes.
Anyhoo . . .
We're about to watch something fun . . .
WILL MAYOR SLY STAY CLOSE TO THE KCFD AS MEDIA CALLS THEIR ACTIONS INTO QUESTION OR WILL HE THROW AWAY HIS FIRE GEAR AND BACK OFF THE PRESS CONFERENCES THAT HE WAS PROUD TO LEAD A FEW DAYS AGO!!!
Whatever the case . . . In order to save TKC Readers we'd just like to note that it's important to remember to run from the smell of gas and not rely on the decision making skills of other people . . . Also, I'm gonna start farting in pubic more often just to keep everybody safe and cognizant of Kansas City old and busted infrastructure and emergency response FAIL.
DEVELOPING . . .
Give
ReplyDeleteIt
A
Rest.
You weren't on the scene. You just had people send you photos. You don't know how the situation went down. I DO and KCFD IS NOT TO BLAME!
Bullshit! You must be an idiot or a coward. Public safety does not abandon a potential threat to the public like that. They stay and evacuate the public.
DeleteTake your pick, Hoser, idiot or coward?
This" plan" Dave Helling is referring to had nothing to do with small scale single unit evacuations. It is only intended for large scale city wide evacuations. Both issues are completely different subjects. This guy has no clue.... It's sweeps times and they continue to want to burn someone at the stake. It's a witch hunt. Trying to use that document while attempting to prove fault is off base, that isn't the evacuation plans intent. That's like trying to use a trackhoe to plant flowers in your garden. Yeah... That machine will dig holes... But there are better tools for the job. SOP was followed, end of story.
ReplyDeleteAha, idiot it is. There are no "sweeps" in print news.
DeleteGet a clue jackass. You have no business trying to figure out how an emergency plan is suppose toward when you don't even have any training. The fire dept trains to put out fires, not figure out how to fix a gas main. That is the gas companies job. If the gas company says that it is not a concern than the fire dept has no say unless they see something grossly wrong, All you idiots say you smelled gas for hours but not one of you called 911. May be this wouldn't have happened if you all had actually called but I guess you were too busy with Facebook and your latte. Just to give you a heads up Tony. If a powerline goes down, a water main break happens, or a major incident happens at Honeywell the fire dept defers to those agencies that control those sources. Blame will fall on the contractor, MGE, and all you DBs who didn't call and report a gas leak. I said it first.
ReplyDeleteHere we have it. FD finally admits they are trained to put out fires.
DeleteStop trying to act like you know anything about EMS or care about the public.
"The plan is hardly a set of rules that every firefighter could be expected to recite. And, like similar plans, it gives public responders significant flexibility in determining if and when to order an evacuation.
ReplyDeleteThat flexibility is critical because not every gas leak or minor emergency requires widespread evacuation. Although the blueprint does not explicitly require it, in practice, consultation with private workers and other experts at the scene is a common part of that calculation. "
That is intersting.
Everything I have read has get outta jail free cards built into the rhetoric.
Lawyers will figure this out.
I havn’t seen a time line yet that is or has been accepted by the authorities in question and the media. I think that will be forthcoming and because of the high profile nature of the event, will be accurate.
ReplyDeleteAt this point, based on conversation and comments, it looks like we can establish this much.
The standard equipment carried by MGE is the MSA 260. This unit detects gas and runs less than $1000.00 (I find them on line for way less.). It has not been established to morons in the street like me, if the KCFD carries them also.
Typically, a multi-gas detector is used (LEL, CO, O2, and H2) because those are the most common hazards found in confined space entry (tanks, vessels, sewers).
With regard to the MSA 260–Is that the standard for on site determination of danger with relation to gas? Does the Fire Dept have them? Does MGE have them? Are there better units that MGE carries that would over rule a reading of an MSA 260? Who carries those? Is there a precedent or hierarchy for responsibility with concern to protocols in similar situations?
These facts, for observers are yet to be established.
Here is an explanation of hierarchy responsibility by a commenter, and it rings true to me at this point.
“The fire Department shows up, gets an on scene briefing by anyone having relevant information, and then directs the response.
In your scenario, he would have heard from the boring contractor (yes, I hit a line in the alley. I had about 75 feet of my reel out heading north, i hit an obstruction, pushed through it, and began smelling gas, alled 911 right away) and then from MGE (LEL readings elevated in the alley. Gas may be migrating into surrounding structures.) There would have been a discussion of where the shut offs were (e.g. does MGE know where they are, etc).
Whether he calls for additional manpower, chooses to wait for more MGE employees, continues his investigation or begins a full evacuation, just the fact that he had a known rupture that was not under control and elevated LEL readings, coupled with an obvious smell of gas, should have been enough for him to stick around.”
At this point, it seems that the the blame is going to fall on the KCFD, not so much because they could have prevented the explosion, but the fact that it looks like they abandoned thier post.
In addition, it seems at this point, to me, that the KCFD is in control and is the final word on what actions to take in these situations.
The thing that stands out to me, is the testimony of many whom were with in close proximity who smelled an overpowering stench of natural gas, in juxtaposition with the fact-that we KNOW the KCFD was on site and left while this smell still existed (WAS AN MSA 260 EMPLOYED?).
There is a dramatic difference of opinion to this point on the ability to shut down gas valves. Apparantly you can shut down “Curb” valves close to business’ but NEVER a main valve. This must be what Mark McDonald was referring to and, is and will be a crucial piece of information (Was it done/ Who did it? When was it done? etc) in the coming weeks.
No matter what your opinion of the KCFD and MGE’s performance, I can’t believe that these two companies thought there was any real danger, or they don’t leave. Or do they? A shift in the wind? No MSA 260 on the trucks. Do we have the right time line yet?
It doesn’t look like there is a time line established and that, along with assessment of other variables in conjunction with the actions of the relavent personell will determine who hangs and who pays.
People will hang, and money will be paid.
Lets hope the lawyers get it right and the victims can move on.
Most of the info here, I got from commenters kind enought to supply urls that I looked up.
Wow. I didn't realize Tony was a state fire investigator. Thanks for cracking this case, Alonzo.
ReplyDeleteLocal 42 and the Fire Chiefs' Union -- yes, they have a union too but no one ever talks about them -- will be posting comments all over this blog trying to knock this allegation down.
ReplyDeleteI bet you see 100 comments on this post Tony.
They are supposed to take charge of a situation like a gas leak, and they did not to it.
KCFD is to blame. They were the trained responders on the scene and should have taken control of the situation. To leave is up to laborers from the gas company certainly did not work. KCFD was negligent.
ReplyDeleteMAST would have made sure the area was evacuated. Just saying...
DeleteHey Chuck, you're NOT a trained blogger and you're NOT in TKC's basement, so you have no business writing anything on this blog. Quit your fucking typing.
ReplyDeleteKCFD was complacent and lackadaisical in addressing the gas leak. Deal with it, FD.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't there, so I guess I have no business commenting on that wreck in the race yesterday.
ReplyDelete8:13
ReplyDeleteA "Trained Blogger".
If you don't like it, quit whining about me like a little bitch and enlighten us with your takes on the events at JJs.
What a fuckin joke, a "Trained Blogger".
Hey, go back to takin pictures of your dick with your cell phone and sending them to yourself.
KCFD is to blame. Sly knows it. Sly and the city council are owned by Local 42. So they are working on the coverup. This time the coverup won't work because the national media will not let it happen.
ReplyDeleteKCFD Logic- Sarcasm doesn't translate well to electronic mediums.
ReplyDelete9:12- Not only the national media, but the Feds, as well.
ReplyDeleteMy apologies.
ReplyDeletePlenty of blame to go around--deserved by both KCFD and MGE. Sad.
ReplyDeleteAnother EPIC FAILURE by the Zeros of KCFD and Local 42!!!
ReplyDeleteAnd 3808 (the KCFD Chiefs Union Local).
DeleteYeah, everyone except Chief Paulie "Walnuts" Berardi is immune to discipline.
They should have put out the call around noon, that there was free watermelon, neck bones and fried chicken at JJ's...
ReplyDeleteThey should have put out the call around noon, that there was free watermelon, neck bones and fried chicken at JJ's...
ReplyDeleteIt was Glutes Day at the firehouse, so they had to get their butt reps in before they took charge of anything. When it comes to body building, it does not matter what or who burns up if the pretty boy firefighters have not felt the burn in their muscles. The older guys just nursed hang-overs from their last off hours and watched their belly buttons move closer to their chins.
ReplyDeleteWas just told by a sanitation employee that the KCMO Sanitation Department has suspended trash pickup indefinitely because the residential streets are not safe for the crews to travel. If the expected storm hits KC this week, the suspension of service will extend until the regularly scheduled pick-up schedule in first week of March.
ReplyDeleteIn order to avoid negative publicity for as long as possible, the offices of the City Manager and the Mayor ordered the Sanitation Department to not issue a public announcement on this decision and to leave the announcement on the city's Web site that trucks would be working Saturday and Sunday.
The City's failure to conduct a snow removal campaign in residential neighborhoods now means that citizens will have to store 2-3 weeks of trash before the next pick-up.
Media inquiries about trash and recycling should be directed to Sean Demory, public information officer for the Public Works Department, at 816-935-7487.
ReplyDeleteKC SMEGMA:
KCFD
KCPD
Sly The Rat Lying Scumbag Lawyer/Politician
Time to circumcise this city.
Chuck, I think you make good comments and you're right, money will be paid, and hopefully the victims can move on. Except one. Megan Cramer can't move on because she was killed in the explosion.
ReplyDeleteI hope more than blame placement and big money payouts come out of this. I hope both MGE and KCFD learn better how to respond to these situations, and I hope citizens learn when they smell natural gas, call 9-1-1 or MGE or both from another phone AFTER you've left the premises.
10:28, or should I say, Chicken Little, I'm calling BS. Snow melts. No one will be storin 2-3 weeks of trash. The trucks will be back in a few days as soon as they can run the routes. The City's solid waste division is well-run and, well, solid. Things will be fine. The sky isn't falling.
ReplyDelete2/24/13, 11:34 AM
ReplyDeleteI think the person you are deriding makes more sense than you do.
My trash has not been picked up even though the City Web Site sad it should have been picked up yesterday.
I have not seen a trash truck anywhere since before the storm.
Now, what is your evidence to the contrary or do you just get paid by the city to lie to the public on blogs?
2/24/13, 11:41 AM
ReplyDeleteThey have been trained to run ever since the Bannister Road explosion.
We have trained a generation of cowards on KCFD. They are are only "tough" when it comes to intimidating poll workers for candidates that might put the public ahead of the fire department.
KCFD left it to MGE for one reason alone: KCFD was scared.
Megan Cremer burned alive screaming for help because they KCFD was scared.
2/24/13, 11:30 AM
ReplyDeleteI wish for Megan's sake that the explosion had killed her. She was trapped. She screamed for help until the fire consumed her ... slowly.
Every member of KCFD has that black mark on their souls.
We were not scared. We could not do anything! Here is what happened.
ReplyDeleteI was very close to beating a personal best on Farmville. How the hell was I supposed to take charge of anything when I was looking at that? A personal best damn it!
As a common citizen, if I see KCFD respond to 48th and Belleview with a smell of gas in the air (I did not think it overwhelming but noticeable rotten egg smell) then leave, I would assume things are under control. Kind of like leaving the gas on in your kitchen, the igniter not lighting it, then you turn off supply knob. THe gas is still in the air, but supply turned off.
ReplyDeleteWith KCFD departing, and MGE on site, a reasonable person would assume things under control. MGE saw that there was staff and customers in JJ's, yet no one came in to tell them to evacuate. In stead, they come in about 540-545 and say they should shut it down to the manager and the hostess.
We pay our tab and leave, and 15 minutes later at 6:02:10pm (alarms sounded and recorded exact time of explosion).
Had the MGE person who came in JJ at 540-545 had a urgency in his voice,, example,, LEAVE NOW. We may have had a destroyed person, but we would not have a deceased JJ employee.
MGE employees dont have death wishes. It's not their intent to go to work and get blown up. They rely on training. That MGE training is faulted in luring these workers to doing things they should not, and MGE training faulted in not having evacuation procedures. At a minimum the 2 surrounding buildings (Doctor Spa to the east of the line cut and JJ's to the west of the line cut) should have been evacuated. MGE was on site at 515 or so, and they had street blocked with their trucks at 530pm or so. Their training said to them--We can handle this-- Had their training said, evac first, fix line second then again, we would have a living JJ's staffer.
I saw that JJ;s was given a --GET OUT-- warning seconds before the blast. Clay, Lindsay, Diedre, Matt, and other JJ staff were wounded but living. I cant imagine their emotional stress being that close to death.
The MGE employee who came in at 545 I'm sure has a lot of emotional baggage on the JJ's injuries and death, but it was his MGE training that needs to be faulted.
KCFD should not have cleared the call until the natural gas to the leaking line was shut off, the released natural gas dissipated to safe levels, and any other hazard was abated. Anything short of that was negligent.
ReplyDeleteAnd MGE will certainly need to defend their actions and procedures as well. But the primary responsibility for protecting the welfare of th public rests squarely on the shoulder of th KCFD.
KCFD is to blame they should not have left the scene until it was safe.
ReplyDeleteI have a gas stove at home. If I smell gas in the house because the gas knob was left on without igniting, I will sure as hell tell my family to get out of the house until it airs out. I don't need any meter to tell me that the strong odor of rotten eggs means that something flammable is in the air. I will do the prudent thing and evacuate, regardless of what a meter might say. Seems to me that a prudent fire fighter would have started evacuating people from nearby buildings. KCFD, as the first responder for the City, is ultimately responsible for safety at this scene.
ReplyDeleteThis is a mess for the KCFD and the City. Doesn't KCFD have a new fire chief?
KCFD is to blame. They are responsible.
ReplyDeleteHow long until the fire chief and Mayor resign over this? This mistake is that big, national new big. Just wait until all the cable channels find out and run this story over and over and over again. Lots of people should lose their jobs over this!!
ReplyDeleteI am not a fan of the mayor since he agreed to appoint Cindy Circo as mayor pro tem in exchange for the firefighter's support in the general election.
DeleteBut Chief Paulie Walnuts was hired by the City Manager, who is responsible for all City services. Where was he since he has the firefighters to thank for his job in exchange for rolling MAST into the fire department. Had he taken the KCFD training and fled the area before it blew or was his KCFD apparel dirty?
KCFD failed the public.
ReplyDeleteThe fire department is almost as bad as KCPD.
ReplyDeleteOne thing is certain it's not called KILLA City for nothing.
How many more times will we see Sly in his KCFD shirt?
ReplyDelete11:53 AM
ReplyDeleteHello citizen, what station do you work out of? Really.
Glazer is beginning to look like Ernest Hemingway with this post.
ReplyDeleteTypical MU fans on here..... Always sour grapes.
ReplyDeleteHarley went to "J" School at MU.
ReplyDeleteNow we know who is ghost writing for Glazer.
Typical in a thread like this, some BS fireman doesn't like the publicity or hint that the FD didn't do its job and left like a longtime rental horse who'd rather just head back to the barn. So he says you weren't there and everyone shouldn't second guess the FD.
ReplyDeleteThey like it that way. No accountability. No responsibility.
For what it's worth a few months back crews working on the 435 and Quivira bridge hit a gas line. OPFD evacuated the nearby houses and businesses (my building was not evacuated). It seems to me this gas line break was much smaller yet they evacuated. When people at the Record Bar can smell gas that is a hell of a lot of gas in the air. From this average person it seems like a few people dropped the ball and somebody needlessly died. Lesson learned. Smell gas, get the hell away.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteKCFD Was Jerking Off On The Job =
They Ejaculated When They Should Have Evacuated.
ROTFLMAO!
DeleteHello 5:31, MAST would not have EVER evacuated. They were an ambulance service, with zero authority to make public safety decisions.
ReplyDeleteYo, 5:51, MAST may not have had the authority to order an evacuation, but they had uniforms, lights and sirens, and common sense. If they tools the public to evacuate, the public would have followed their direction.
DeleteBesides, ICS 700, 800, 100, 200, 300 and 400 do not distinguish between public and private services. Therefore MAST could have conducted an evac.
DeleteAnd, I must say, WE were quite proficient in the IC process. Thank you, supporters!
DeleteI think the mayor and troy s. will probably try to sell the ambulance service and the water dept. to fund future lawsuits instead of the future trolly car system.
ReplyDeleteAMR is waiting. To bad the City doesn't just sell off the Fire Department to a private contractor and save money plus get rid of most of the criminals on the City's payroll.
DeleteHow about it, Troy? AMR has some nice clothing. They took over South Platte when that district fired KCFD.
ReplyDeleteMayor?
7:08, I could be wrong but I don't believe the City ever authorized MAST to make decisions regarding public evacuations, etc. Yes, 6:56, you're probably right in suggesting that if a paramedic starts telling people to evacuate that most reasonable people would follow those instructions. I'm just saying that they never had the legal authority to make such decisions.
ReplyDeleteCheck your history, 8:53...you won't like what you find.
DeleteKansas City's bond rating may well suffer behind all of this. Bad credit plagues even Kansas City Mayor Slick.
ReplyDeleteI love how you people think you are fucking Matlock. You have no idea what happened or what will happen. You think just because you sat your fat asses at home watching Fox4 that you know what's going on. No matter what you haters think about KCFD this will fall on MGE and the contractor. If MGE says it's safe then of course KCFD will yield to the gas professionals as they have the experience with gas and gas systems.
ReplyDeleteI also love how you all throw out all the Mast and Amr references like you have a clue what's going on. If Amr is so hot to trot in South Platte then why are they constantly calling KCFD ambulances to run calls their. I'd also be curious to know why I KCFD keeps responding to calls in Independence. Doesn't Amr serve Independence?
You are running Indy calls so you'll know the district better when AMR takes over.
DeleteBTW, I can special order you a 6X AMR polo.
11:02
ReplyDeleteLearn how to spell her name, fucktard. Anyone who knows her can spell it right. I seriously doubt that she would blame MGE for a job that the fire department is responsible. Get a clue.
You can always tell when a hoser posts on TKC. Poor uneducated bastards...their spelling sucks.
ReplyDeleteFunny how folks will completely give up their common sense when faced with supposedly knowledgeable professionals telling them there's nothing to worry about.
ReplyDeleteYou smell those rotten eggs you get the hell away from it. It's simple.
Some of the worst disasters in the past 50 years happened because the one person everyone looked to to make the correct decision, made the wrong decision or failed to make any decision at all.
Like this one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenerife_airport_disaster
I love sucking firemen off! They have beautiful cocks!
ReplyDeletehey 2/24/14 at 1141:
ReplyDelete"a generation of cowards"? "trained to run"? This is what I have to say to you: You can let people assume you're stupid or open your mouth (in your case, keyboard) and prove everyone right. You have no idea what KCFD employees are expected to do on a daily basis. I'm not even going to try and change your opinion, because you are definitely entitled to have one. Fortunately blatant ignorance is not a crime and you are free to go.