TKC Note: Local 42 and a few Firefighters are playing the bad guy when it comes to the ongoing pension battle and demands at City Hall for more than $30 million in MAST pension backing, but I wanted to highlight this TKC comment out of hundreds yesterday because it offers a valuable look at the issue from another angle:
A PLEA FOR MAST PENSION IN THE TKC COMMENTS
If you check, it is illegal to use money from a 401k to fund a pension. Please understand, we WERE promised year for year in a side letter signed by Troy Schulte and Louie Wright. Over 200 of the employees WILL work 20 plus years. Very few will retire next year as most want to get the full 70% of their base pay. So, most will donate hundreds of thousands in to the pension before retiring.
You also do not understand the commitment EMS workers put into their jobs. Many work hundreds of hours of overtime to help save your lives and be there for your children and aging parents. Before you say that is our job, working 40 hours a week is but only special people work 70 or 80 a week to keep the ambulances on the streets. We see people dying, already dead, guts, broken bones sticking out, parents crying over their dead infants, mothers crying over their murdered daughters. We get spit upon by people with tuberculosis, HIV, Hep C. We get drunks who smell SO bad from peeing their clothes for days. We treat EVERYONE, regardless.
We may not have made monetary contributions to the pensions but we have sacrificed much of our lives to protect and help the citizens of KC. EMS takes a toll on marriages, families, and children. We are away from our families 10, 12, 24 hours a day, dealing with the most horrendous things society can inflict on people. You say, get a different job. Let me tell you. I LOVE my job. EMS people are special. Different than most. Could YOU do our job? Could YOU stand suctioning a trach in the throat of a patient? Could YOU be puked on and then clean it? Only certain types of people are cut out for this job.
Give us the pension we have been promised. Please.
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Look around at other similarly sized and larger cities. City pensions are bankrupting them. KCMO has to be the only City dumb enough to be considering actually ADDING folks to the pension system. Voting against the E-tax will kill KCMO but it might be our only hope.
ReplyDeleteContribute like all other city employees have to do for their retirement.
ReplyDeleteThis person has admitted that the employees at Mast had a retirement system in place. In fact, it was a very good one. Their 401k's didn't vanish when they transferred over to the city.
ReplyDeleteNobody would deny these people are owed a pension with the city from the day they started working as city employees in 2010 until they retire. But how can they ask for credits for the years of service at their previous employer? Especially when they HAVE retirement benefits for those years already?
These people work hard and deserve to be treated just like every other hard working city employee, with a pension that starts on the day they started getting a CITY paycheck instead of a Mast paycheck.
Vote NO More E-TAX !
ReplyDelete9:10 you said it exactly. Those who work for the city 5-20 years will get a reduced pension which will be supplemented by the 401K funds they accumulated with MAST. Those who are nearing retirement should have a large 401K, they do not need to double dip.
ReplyDeleteMuch like KCPD, we cannot continue to be held hostage by the people who do good work but always play the "hero" card when trying to get everything they want.
ReplyDeleteI could MAYBE understand a pension credit for years served when there was no retirement plan in place. However, if you look back, that is a small window. There was a very good 401K for several years, and an ESOP before that. A lot of employees have liquidated their 401K accounts and that money is gone, which probably should have been saved in the case of not getting a pension. That issue should not be a burden placed on the taxpayers.
ReplyDeleteIf the employees liquidated their 401K it is not the responsibility of all the other city employees to pick up the slack for their mistakes.
ReplyDeleteIf your job is so bad, quit! I'm sure there would be 1,000s in line to apply...and maybe even some might be as good at the job as you think you are. Protect the taxpayers or lose your office, FUNK!
ReplyDeleteIf these folks take a look at private employers, who also demand overtime (mostly unpaid), have mostly stopped contributing to their employees' 401ks, and pensions?--that's so 20th Century in the private world--they should realize they have it pretty good compared with the rest of society.
ReplyDeleteThey remind me of Social Security recipients complaining about no cost-of-living raise.
Both of the groups need to get real and look at the scarifices the rest of their fellow human beings are having to make and suck it up.
Government pensions are completely out of hand...if anything, their pensions should be lower than in private enterprise because they also get tenure and are rarely let go like those in private enterprise.
ReplyDelete70 pct of salary as a retirement benefit is excessive. We cant' afford to pay them more than we get paid.
Unions are strangling us. And elected politicians let them.... let em go on strike, then lock em out. Like Reagan did with Patco.
And the media needs to quit putting them up on pedestals... they're no better than any other workers.
This person needs to understand how ridicules they sound.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all ounce a 401k is cashed in that is there money that they can do with what thay want, like maybe keep it for what it was, a retirement plan.
Second, a side letter is not binding it is a letterstating the direction they want to go, (did you ever wonder why those meetings were secret, think maybe because what you were being told made no sence).
Third, the company you worked for no longer exists, you did not work for the city, you probably don't meet the criteria to work for the city, you should concider your self lucky that you were handed a job when your company went away.
Forth, you forgot to tell everyone that you are paid at least time and a half for that overtime you are wining about, you don't have to work it, you choose to.
Fifth, You need to get over your self, you chose to go into a profession, good for you, if it's that big of a hardship for you, find another one.
I could go on, the city does not have the money to fund a free pension to you, nor should they. Any member of the City government that thinks they should should be run out of town on a rail.
Good point, 11:24. A 401k can be rolled over into an IRA. It doesn't have to be cashed out.
ReplyDeleteMAST employees are screwed. Screwed by a weak MAST Board (thanks for fucking nothing, Doc Wheeler!)
ReplyDeleteScrewed by the MOA between Troy (Deb Hermann's voice) Schulte and local 42- Louie Wright
Screwed by really baffling dumb council members. (Dillingham, would you represent the city any better than Ed Ford? Nope, Ford made all of the right votes right from the start.)
Screwed from within MAST ranks. Where's that female pig-nosed Louie suck up NOW!
Screwed by Local 500. These losers do what Louie Wright tells them to do, getting kicked in the ass is a natural occurrence with ball-less jerks.
ANY pension funds MUST come out of the Fire Department. Let them pay for Louie Wright's maniacal illusions of grandeur.
Cut down on chiefs and their drivers. No more new hires as the KCFD is already 23% over staffed. Fix the overstaff issue.
I'm confused as to where mast members are screwed, they have a job, they got raises, they have a pension system they can join, they have there old 401k money.
ReplyDeleteOh maybe the part where they chose to cash in the 401k and blow the money, maybe the part where they aren't being given a pension for nothing, maybe the part where they have chosen to air all this in public, yep your right, they are screwing themselves.
They do have options, AMR, McDonalds or run for the city council.
toadstool... Once again, if it is so fucking bad to be a paramedic them quit. No one is forcing people to work there. Also, I believe in strong living wage, but this is way beyond that. I do agree that the Fire and Police overspend out the ass.
ReplyDelete11:41 Toadstool is Susan Ramirez who is a staffer of Mike Burke. That's why she has so much to say on all of these blogs.
ReplyDeleteI agree that the poster wanting a pension is in a bind. The council must come up with a solution that gives city employed EMS workers a pension. City council voted to merge them in way too fast. TALK of pensions was in the air, but not part of the vote. That is how they were screwed.
ReplyDeleteI agree that the poster wanting a pension is in a bind. The council must come up with a solution that gives city employed EMS workers a pension. City council voted to merge them in way too fast. TALK of pensions was in the air, but not part of the vote. That is how they were screwed.
ReplyDeleteWhoefer he is, he's right. More city hall hot mess. More of the same to come if we keep the co-mayors.
ReplyDeleteEMS workers should have fought local 42 on this merge before. Now the bad deal is done.
who cares whos who, no more taxes!
ReplyDeleteIf Susan is volunteering for a candidate then I trust her judgement. She had the balls to be the first to openly call out Funkhouser.
ReplyDeleteI dont think anyone doubts the amount of commitment that the EMS/MAST workers have for their jobs.
ReplyDeleteHOWEVER, at the end of the day, the truth is that, THEY WERENT CITY EMPLOYEES BEFORE APRIL!
Why should my tax dollars go towards funding something that wasnt even a Kansas City responsibility before April 2010?
Funding a pension from April 2010 to today and going forward is not a problem, but sticking us with a bill thats not ours is.
Whatever bag of "Magic Beans" you were sold in exchange for your cow by Louie Wright needs to be tossed out the window. In the real world, we city employees, with REAL tenure, will forever resent the very idea that you want retroactive pension contributions for the time periods before April 2010. It is a VERY bad idea, for the city, for our citys economy, AND for our upcoming Etax Ballot.
So, in short, FUGETTABOUTIT!
This just should not happen. Let the taxpayers of Kansas City vote on the issue since we can't seem to trust the folks we voted into office to make a sensible decision. We live in the city, the vast majority of these guys don't. They have had access to a 401-K for the past 20 years and I am sure the smart ones have invested wisely. I have no problem with any of them starting in the City pension plan as of April 1. Qualify just like all the other city workers do, move into the city that supports you. As for the person who wrote the post Tony quoted, REALLY!!!!do you think you are the only person that has a difficult job? Every cleaned out a sewer line or worked in a steam tunnel? Get in line.
ReplyDeleteI would definitely listen to anything Susan Ramirez has to say.
ReplyDeleteThe letter that the poster is referring to can not just be ignored. It might even be legally binding.
Like it or not, you may have no choice but to honor this agreement.
Susan is great, that's not Susan. I didn't know she was volunteering for Burke. That makes him a lot more formidable in my mind.
ReplyDeleteToadstool makes a good point. MAST was screwed by the City Council. Just like they screwed everything else.
MAST workers are in limbo. Funkhouser let the fire union president use him because he hopes Local 42 leadership will continue to support him. This awful situation is of Funkhouser's making. yes, it's me!
ReplyDeleteYes you may think your job is important, but so are others. Without EVERYONE doing their job, we would be living in the stone ages. Why should we the taxpayer suddenly pay for your unplanned pension? If were not absorbed into the city, what would you have done for retirement?
ReplyDeletePassing this will kill the e-tax. If the e-tax is eliminated, I will probably lose my job. If city council passes this, I will personally vote against the e-tax. THIS IS BULLSHIT.
You can have a city pension. When did you become a city employee? May 1st? Congratulations, you now have 5 months towards your pension. Isn't this what Troy really promised you?
ReplyDeleteIf they want to double dip they need to do it like any other public sector employee: do your 20 years and then go do another 20 somewhere else. If you start at age 18, you can be nicely retired before 60 while the rest us shmucks (read: private- sector-employed taxpayers) keep working to fund both your pensions.
ReplyDeleteYes- God bless EMTs, and cops and fire crews. But give them a wage and a choice on where/how to invest their savings and get rid of this pension mess that's bankrupting cities, counties, states and coming soon to a federal government near you. The gravy train sucks when all you're doing is lifting the ladle to dish out the gravy.
I'm tired of hearing people argue over a 'he said, she said'. Could someone show me the actual written agreement so I can see what was agreed to and who signed it?
ReplyDeleteMAST employees should buy into pension system. They should roll the value of their 401k's and make up the difference out of pocket. It's not cheap but it's the fairest offer that can be made.
ReplyDeleteIf they don't want to pay into the system, then fuck them.
I don't care if they worked 80 hours a week. They got paid for that overtime.
Since the city council has the responsibility for budgeting and allocating public funds, who authorized Troy Schulte to sign an agreement with Louie Wright which committed the city to paying as much as $17 million to the retirement fund?
ReplyDeleteNames, please!
Seriously I think city employees that clmb down 20ft in freezing water to repair water and sewer pipes have a crappy job, and so do wastewater operators and repair people who work around shit all day and are exposed to 40 + pathogens and Hep A. So quit your damn whining Mast. Once you became a city employee you began to contribute to the pension plan just like any new city employee. Maybe you should not have cashed in your 401K.
ReplyDeletefuck louie wright too. that cocksucker is a leach.
ReplyDeleteBullshit....you had the time to pay into a system, tax free. Now you want more money without putting into it, the sheep of Kansas City should make sure that this does not happen. Police and Fire paid into thier system, based on this rational they should get maxed out 401k for the time they couldn't afford to do both!!!
ReplyDelete5:34 is right. How many people these days get paid overtime? Especially if you're designated a "professional" employee.
ReplyDeleteI agree with 6:31, too. There are lots of nasty jobs out there. Mast is just one of them, and it's no worse than many and it's better than some.
Hey City Council, do you see consensus here?
ReplyDeleteFact 1: The City Council was Bullied into the decision to merge by local 42, with no planning or any idea of how to do it.
ReplyDeleteFact 2: the Former MAST employees were promised (by city council members as well as King Louie) a full credit pension.
Fact 3: it is illegal for someone to "buy into" a currently operating pension plan (check with the feds on this, I did) so the city council should have known they would get stuck with a pension bill.
And that number is not the 17 mil that is being talked about. About 10 years ago an accountant did the numbers and presented them to the E-board of the former Local I-34----$36 Million Dollars.
City Council Members made promises that should never have been made and now have to be honored. That is the way of the Kansas City city council.
There should be Federal Investigations into just how 12 people could vote for this merger with so little factual information.
FACT: The Council didn't promise MAST anything. Louie did. Let Louie pay for it. Work for the CITY for the years it takes to become vested. No special favors to MAST.
ReplyDeleteAdditional Side Letter Agreements
ReplyDeleteMarch 24, 2010
Local 42 & K.C., MO
Page 3
A5. Retirement Options for Employees of the Medical Bureau:
...As noted, the supplemental benefit is granted in recognition of the special
duties, skills and experience of this group. The formula used to calculate
the supplemental benefit shall include the number of years of continuous
Additional Side Letter Agreements
March 24, 2010
Local 42 & K.C., MO
Page 4
service (as defined below) with MAST of such employees, as of the day
before the date of integration to result in a total benefit at retirement under
the Employees’ Pension that is equivalent to that of a City employee with
the same number of years.
FUCKERS!
Local 500 members...where were YOU a year and half ago? Where was your union president and vice president? They were at EVERY city council meeting! THEY supported the merger! A merger of 320 people in to the city. After a layoff of over 500 city employees. What did you think the pension was going to be? Take your beefs up with them! They sold you out! Do you think they are going to be able to protect your jobs when the water service is privatized? Hell no! Why were they not interested in our pension then?
ReplyDeleteHow do you think Louie Wright got people at MAST to go along with the merger? YOU DIDN'T THINK! YOU DIDN'T CARE! All of a sudden, you do. TOO LATE!
You think our job is no different than yours? Come try it for a day. You couldn't do it. You don't have the multiple licenses we have, the education, nor the ability to make the quick decisions necessary to prevent someone from dying in front of you. I don't think I am special but a promise is a promise.
Instead of hating on us, take it up with Troy Schulte!
I think that the last two commentators summed it up.
ReplyDeleteAnon 9:57 PM Said ...
"There should be Federal Investigations into just how 12 people could vote for this merger with so little factual information."
I'm sorry, but your only recourse is to be more careful of who you vote for. Its a republic.
10:58. Yes, some of us do have professional licenses. We all get a paycheck. YOU have 401k. The fact you may have not planned for retirement doesn't mean you get to win the lottery with KCMO at the expense of other city employee layoffs. You should not be allowed to double dip. Get over it, wake up City Council
ReplyDeleteMAST employees see themselves as God like
ReplyDeleteeducation? only half of mast has education. if your an emt at mast you have 1 semester, i repeat 1 semester in college for your emt education. if your a paramedic, then you have a lot of education and a degree for most, but emts have 1 semester in college for their degree. so if your an emt don't act like you have so much education. unless your a paramedic though. then you actually have more than a semester of education. if your an emt then your education is next to nothing. and only half of mast employees are paramedics.
ReplyDeletealso its completely your fault if you cashed out your 401k. i mean really, who does that? you cashed it out and went and wasted your money. that was your choice. that was a stupid choice. maybe you should have kept your 401k until the pension thing was figured out. i mean the merger happened in april. we are in october now. you could have easily not cashed your 401k out until now, but your chose to cash it out and waste your money on who knows whats. thats your fault and the tax payers should not have to front the bill for your stupid idiotic decisions.
also there is not 1 and i repeat not 1 single person who worked overtime at mast just to keep ambulances on the street. you are a flat out liar. your just as bad as everyone else you complain about. you lie but i guess thats ok since your doing it. any mast employee who worked overtime did it for the money plain and simple. they did it for themselfs and not to keep the ambulances on the street. stop lying!!!
you messed up cashing out your 401k. thats on you and should not be passed on to the tax payers. you made the mistake, not taxpayers.
9:11: Good post, but "your" is a possessive pronoun (i.e., "your 401k") while "you're" is a contraction for "you are," (i.e., "You're a flat out liar.") It really makes reading posts a lot easier if posters use conventional spelling. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteDumb finance decisions like this one, that will cost the city a lot of money, will be used as fodder to defeat E-Tax. *Every* voter can understand the effects of an undeserved windfall give-away to a handful of union members who did not earn the money, and the enormous cost that will be paid by voters. A give-away this expensive and unwarranted, when publicized during the E-Tax election, just might become THE PIVOTAL ISSUE that pushes enough undecided voters to vote REPEAL and kill the E-tax forever.
ReplyDeleteCity council, union ... think about it.
The e-tax is spreading the revenue from all who work or live in Kansas City. Ending the e-tax would just mean higher property taxes for those who live in Kansas City--it wouldn't make city council or the mayor any smarter, unfortunately.
ReplyDeleteI think your missing the point, until the residents toss the idiots who made this decision, including the current administration you can expect more of the same. I would not wipe my ass with an MOA from Schultee and Wright, it already covered in shit. Thank you Deb Hermann.
ReplyDeleteThis all just makes me wanna hollar. Honestly, did we see any freaking numbers before this happened? NO WE DID NOT--we got the fine-fine hand job--and it was just as unsatisfying. So here we are, about where I thought we'd be, and I keep thinking the four least satisfying words in the English language: I told you so.
ReplyDeleteIt was all about power and money. Louie Wright does not care about the former MAST employees, or even the fire fighters. He sure as hell doesn't care about the community. Louie Wright is yet another greed head pol, looking out for number 1--that would be LW.
Eventually city worker pensions are going to have to be dealt with, and it will not be pretty. People are going to lose out on money they were promised. The problem here is that MAST employees were enticed (bribed?) with promises of full pension instead of a hybrid or straight contribution system. If the city says no to the $30 million dollar plan, they will be seeing Local 42 in court. They could lose big, depending on how a judge interprets the contract and "side letters."
Don't be distracted by what individual MAST employees did with their 401K money. A "Rock and Hard Place" situation was created by the City Council caving into the fire union and the desire for power without REALLY STUDYING the idea of taking MAST on as a city endeavor by merging it into the fire department.
Reelect no one from the clowncil. No one from the current City Council is mayoral material either.