TKC READERS RECOMMEND: KANSAS CITY STREETCAR NAMED DISASTER!!!
Thanks to AN AWESOME TKC READER who recommends an important article from a publication that isn't promoting the stupid Downtown Toy Train in exchange for access . . .
Forbes: A Disaster Named Streetcar
First, the post references the CATO institute's Randal O’Toole and his new study on the folly of streetcars . . . Fun fact: It's titled "The Conspiracy of Streetcars" in big ominous lettering.
And then . . . There's a money quote that perfectly summarizes exactly what's happening in Kansas City:
"The proliferation of streetcars is an example of the waste that tends to occur when money for local projects is allocated at the federal level. It’s hard to imagine many of the cities currently installing streetcars would be doing so if they were paying the full price themselves. But when there’s a pot of money available and someone is going to get it, municipalities have a strong incentive to submit proposals that meet the federal criteria even if they don’t make sense on the merits."
We'll have more on this hot mess put forth by MESA GENIUS COUNCIL DUDE RUSS JOHNSON and Mayor Sly's obsession with shiny new toys.
DEVELOPING . . .
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27 Comments:
Absolutely. Just who are these people in town pushing this...what are their names and what's in it for THEM? I'd like to hear them justify this wasted expense.
Is a "Mesa Geinius: the same as a "Concasa" genius?
I wanna go there for lunch.
:)
Stanford and Binet went to the Mesa, for Concasa and Cervaza.
I suppose you could also link the numerous studies and reports detailing the positive economic impact of streetcars.
The Coal Hauler Cometh!
Hilarious pic! You could have at least made the arms blend in with the skin color of the face but I guess that's part of what makes this so funny.
How can a trolley no one will ride have a 'positive impact' other than paying the workers to put it in? Won't it be a money loser after that until they finally take it out?
People will generally have to DRIVE RIGHT BY the destinations just to get ON the damned thing, to go from one to the other! Just make downtown businesses within 3 blocks of a stop, and Hallmark pay for it if they're so hot for their 'positive impact'!!
If they want something useful, they'll extend it south to the Plaza which is a bigger destination, and put in some parking lots along the way.
8:19
No need to link the studies detailing positive impact. Just pull the old studies showing the benefits to:
Remodeling Kemper Arena
Building P&L
Expanding Bartle
Showing how the Sprint Center will GUARANTEE we will get an NBA or NHL franchise.
Once you pull those studies, you substitute the word trolly for whatever project they are supporting.
All of the studies have unrealistically high ridership numbers and underestimate the operating costs that have to be picked up by the city after the capital project is done. Poor people who ride the buses then suffer because the buses (cheap transportation) get cut to support the trollys for, if not the one percent, the twenty percent.
Link one then! I'd like to see one study showing positive effects caused by building a streetcar. And I'm not talking about a light rail system, I'm talking about a tourist streetcar. Show me please!!
The studies I was referring to are the studies that measure the economic development produced by streetcars built in other communities. KCMO needs to figure out ways to attract and maintain taxable incomes. Streetcar is likely one of the surest bets. I challenge the opponenets to find an alternative that has a better proven track record. The status quo will be disasterous for KCMO and eventually the surrounding communities. Do we want to be Detroit or do we want to be Seattle?
Google is a wonderful thing. here is the first one that popped up. There are many more. I take it you are a believer now or have you made your mind up already and did not request the information in good faith? BTW - Streetcars have more econoimic development benefits than light rail...as they should because they are trying to accomplish two very different goals...but I am sure you already knew that.
http://www.edhovee.com/streetcar_report.pdf
8:19 & 9:36: I have not read the studies you're referring to, but I'd be willing to bet they are studies of areas in which a streetcar was installed that had no previous public transportation.
I'm familiar with the light rail that was installed in San Jose, CA. It did raise property values (not necessarily tax revenues, though, since those are capped by Prop. 13), BUT there had not been other public transportation available.
KC's streetcar duplicates (actually duadruplicates, since there are at least three bus routes that go from River Market to Crown Center) existing public transportation.
Kansas City is not San Francisco. People will not come here to see our streetcars. This is a 2-mile boondoggle. I'm with 7:30. Who's going to make money out of this deal, and if they're so sold on it, why aren't they willing to build with their own money?
Didn't Forbes also give us this article
@912, who said anything about cutting bus routes when the streetcar starts? Just because those other projects have not (so far) lived up to their expectation, doesn't make the studies inaccurate. The streetcar will add ridership, not shift it among classes.
If @959 is right, and the streetcar replaces three bus routes, those routes can be used elsewhere (airport, K, or suburbs, hopefully). it's cheaper to run one streetcar (that more people are more likely to ride) than three buses. Why does someone have to make money off of this? just like the buses, it's a public service. of course someone will make money from building it, nothing is free! People who do support it are able to help build it with their own money: neighbor.ly
Pay attention.
@730 What's in it for me is that i get to be proud of a city that is trying to compete (and right now a good way to do that is public transportation). I also get to ride it!
While JOCO is about to severely cut bus service, KC is moving ahead, kicking and screaming, into the modern world. Given the choice between JOCO and KC, something like a streetcar gives KC that much more advantage when new businesses are making the choice.
The streetcar is intended to expand to plaza/waldo. that is why the proposed route changed from circling around crown center to stopping near union station.
Oh, and let's build a new airport, too!
Everybody likes the airport the way it is, but that means nothing to the elite at City Hall.
The trolley line will:
1. Cost more than predicted.
2. Take longer to build than predicted.
3. Have fewer riders than predicted.
What's with the culture of this local government? Spending more that we can afford during difficult times.
This is a time to get back to basics, not dreaming up pie in the sky stupid ideas that won't help the taxpayers who support them. Fix the sewers and the streets. Resurface roads that need them. Find more EFFICIENT WAYS to provide city services to give taxpayers MORE SERVICE for their BUCKS.
It's ABSOLUTELY not your jobs to keep developers flush in city contracts. We're in difficult times, incomes are depressed. Not a time to support the rich but rather ease the burden on the poor!
What the hell is the matter with you Sly and council?
Dude I'm from Seattle, trust me Kc wil NEVER be Seattle. Trust me, the SLUT, which is seattles trolly is considered a joke by the people of seattle. Their light rail system is something to be copied, the Slut, not so much...
Randal O'tool wears a bolo tie and is a defender of urban sprawl, so you can't really take him (or his 'analysis') too seriously.
12:21: Are you paying attention?
(1) the two miles from River Market to Crown Center are PART of three other bus routes. It's not likely that people will want to take the streetcar to Crown Center and then transfer to a bus, so this dinkly little boondoggle will not replace three bus routes.
(2) Someone is making money off this. If they weren't we never would have heard of it.
And 12:37, if you're so anxious that this be built, why not put your money where your mouth is. That way, you could really feel proud!
1:36 is right. My street in Waldo currently has not one, but TWO water leaks. We need our sewers fixed, our water lines repaired, and our streets maintained. Building touristy frou frou (to quote our former mayor and current Congressman) such as this is like putting ganite countertops in a house that has a collapsing foundation.
It's beyond dumb.
LOL @ citing the Cato Institute. There's an unbiased source on government infrastructure investments.
You naysayers will be eating shit on this within 10 years and begging for a streetcar route to whatever sprawly northland rock you live under within 15.
I can hear the northlander whining already, "why don't we ever get anything up here (besides our taxpayer subsidized cul-de-sacs subdivisions and totally unnecessary highway interchanges) transit should go to the airport first, not in the densest and fastest growing part of the city where all the jobs and population is... wah, wah, wah.
And the JoCoers here and everywhere else, bitching about "big-city boondoggles" will be living in Miami county complaining about how the president needs to do something about gas prices because they can't afford to fix the leaks in their 4 year old, beige, 6000 square foot waferboard "homes" and worryinig about how the niggers will get in...
4:08, there are no more straw men to beat up on. You sure told those people, who ever they are. Who are you arguing with exactly? Oh, never mind. You just wanted to spout off like you are the most clever voice in the room. But nobody noticed since it made as much sense as a mouse fart.
4:08, there are no more straw men to beat up on. You sure told those people, who ever they are. Who are you arguing with exactly? Oh, never mind. You just wanted to spout off like you are the most clever voice in the room. But nobody noticed since it made as much sense as a mouse fart.
Ed Ford has been a busy little fat boy spreading bad words behind his colleagues backs while making nice to their face. The dude is an insufferable gossip who belongs in a quilting circle instead of being in a place of decision making at City Hall. When this term is up, Ford will have been on City Council for 16 years, and can anyone name three things he has accomplished except feeding TKC bullshit information?
I live in the river market, and to me it is a stupid city investment. Why do I need 3 streetcar stops within 6 blocks of my apartment? There's things called legs, and most people who live down there are not use this thing when they can just walk
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